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| <16ga. General Discussion ~ Acquired a Side Lock 16 Gauge J.P. Sauer double gun today. |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:27 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| Gentlemen,
I just made a deal on a beautiful 1849-1889 J.P. Sauer Side Lock 16 Gauge Double Bird Gun. This JP Sauer gun has original Krupp 28' Barrels, DT, and incredible French Walnut Stocks. The gun should arrive here at my home in the next week to 10 days.
Pictures on arrival.
These particular 16 gauge J.P. Sauer side Lock double guns are hard to come by today, I was very lucky to acquire it with the restored wood.
Pine Creek/Dave |
Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri May 19, 2017 7:28 am; edited 3 times in total
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'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 2:45 pm |
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Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 605
Location: Topeka, Kansas
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| Look forward to seeing it
The German and Belgian guns don't always get the admiration they deserve |
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Michael
Topeka, KS |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:16 pm |
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Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 689
Location: MN
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| | There are pre-war guns from Suhl and Liege that are the equal of London best guns. Before the war, Kettner and Simson were also purveyors of fine guns...of which many are not aware |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 5:23 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| Gentlemen,
This particular J.P. Sauer 16 Gauge SideLock Bird Gun weighs in at 6.2 Lbs, Engraved with the conservative delicate German Spinning clays, similar to the L. C. Smith #1 Gun, this J.P. Sauer Bird gun may have been Engraved by Jacob Glahn Sr when he was a young man in Germany. Original Case coloring is absolutely beautiful, especially for a approx 150+ year old double gun. The Krupp Barrels are absolutely pristine. The original Sauer lock up is as new, and locks up safe tight. The gun looks to be restored perfectly.
Having owned a Boss London Best SideLock 16 Gauge Double Gun, that was passed down thru our family and never abused, the Boss company never made a double gun to equal this particular 16 gauge SideLock J.P. Sauer Bird Gun. This J.P. will never need to be tweaked at the end of every bird season, to assure perfect lock up, even after 168 years this J.P Sauer double gun is absolutely pristine.
Today the engineering on this High Grade German double gun would cost over 30K, if you could even get Krupp to make a set of 16 Gauge Barrels to equal their very best.
The French Walnut would probably not be available today to use and even with Roys fine Engraving work on the breech work, it still would not be the same.
I was exceedingly lucky to acquire this fine old SideLock German High Grade (Best) 16 gauge double gun, made in Suhl. I know how rare they truly are, especially in pristine condition. The J.P. Bird Gun will definitely get used in the Grouse mountains every year from now on, and will be passed on down thru the family for many generations. IMO the J.P. Sauer Bird gun rates some nice new Silver Snap Caps, will have to pick up a new set in the very near future.
Jon P,
You are absolutely correct (K & S) Kettner and Simson were noted German Best Gun purveyors, destroyed mostly during WWI and WWII. Unfortunately not only their business perished, most of their families did also. Congratulations on owning one of their finest double guns.
The picture was added after JNW's post.
Pine Creek/Dave
http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_23/gi_100856162/J-P-Sauer-and-Sohn-16g-sidelock-nicely-restored_100856162_23_FBC3E2F32DAC1B10.jpg |
Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri May 19, 2017 7:32 am; edited 20 times in total
_________________
'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:35 pm |
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Joined: 15 Jun 2010
Posts: 1332
Location: Twin Cities, MN
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| That sounds like a fabulous gun! Can't wait to see it. Fluid steel or Damascus barrels?
When I had the hammer repaired on my 1925 Simson several years ago the gentleman who did the gunsmithing mostly works on English shotguns and had never been inside a German gun. When I picked it up he commented that he was surprised at the quality of design and build of my shotgun. He said it was better built and more nicely finished inside and out than an English gun of similar grade. All I know is I really like mine.
Regards,
Jeff |
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| | Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:21 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| JNW,
Most Gun Smiths here in the USA excepting those who work on L.C. Smith guns have little to no experience with High Grade (Best) German Double Guns. Only Master Gun Makers like Freddie Brunner, Rich Painter or Nick Makinson with their level of expertise work on these German high Grade double guns. It does not surprise me that your Gun Smith had never seen 1925 Simson double gun, in reality few here in the US even know what they are. His surprise at the quality of the gun was not unexpected, especially the finished Jeweled internal side lock work.
Pine Creek/Dave
Here is a picture I took of the picture sent to me of our 1849-1889 J.P. Sauer 16.
Unfortunately not a great quality picture, I was unable to show the beautiful delicate Conservative German Engraving. However note the similar stock design work to the Pre 1913 L.C. Smith double guns, this has alway interested me about the early J.P. Sauer double guns. Remember the L.C. Smith Master Gun Makers were of German decent also. I will take and post some good pictures when the gun arrives home.
As you can see in the picture the Barrels are high grade Krupp Steel. Chris Batha does a nice job with the article he wrote for the May/June Shooting Sportsman Magazine on the Drilling version of this J.P. Sauer 16 Bird gun, you can see the deluxe version of the Spinning Clays Engraving on the J.P Sauer Drilling gun, he has pictured in his article.
[URL=http://s264.photobucket.com/user/pine-creek/media/DSCN2249_zpsuddjwhh5.jpg.html] [/URL] |
Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri May 19, 2017 7:33 am; edited 2 times in total
_________________
'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:39 pm |
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1968
Location: Florida
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| Is this it? Should make a nice field gun.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-for-sale-online/shotguns/sauer-shotguns/j-p-sauer-sohn-16g-sidelock-nicely-restored-.cfm?gun_id=100856162 |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 1:40 pm |
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Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 1496
Location: Minnesota
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| | cant wait for some pics. Dave did u ever find a 28ga H&R hammer double? |
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Great dog, Great friends,Great guns |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:23 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| Savage 16,
No sir i have never been able to acquire one. Still looking!
I will post some better pictures of the J.P. Sauer 16 SideLock Bird Gun when the gun arrives home. For some reason the seller has safe guarded the business pictures he e-mailed me. I can not copy or move the originals.
Pine Cree/Dave |
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'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:25 pm |
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Member
Joined: 09 Dec 2009
Posts: 1370
Location: Cheyenne, Wy
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| Dave, beautiful gun, congratulations. If you bought it from Kirby Hoyt, you can be assured that it is a quality piece and as described.
I have bought a few guns from Kirby, and have never been disappointed.
Dale |
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One man with courage makes a majority.
...Andrew Jackson... |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:38 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| Gentlemen,
Yes that is the J.P. Sauer 16 Gauge Side Lock Bird Gun, at an incredible price. Like i indicated, I was very lucky to pick it up for the price Kirby sold it to me for. I did not know he had listed it on GI. Glad I acted on it when I did.
FN16,
I do not think that the J.P. Sauer side lock field guns ever came with Krupp steel Barrels, if they did God bless J.P. Sauer. It definitely will make a great Grouse gun for me that is for sure.
Pine Creek/Dave
http://images.gunsinternational.com/listings_sub/acc_23/gi_100856162/J-P-Sauer-and-Sohn-16g-sidelock-nicely-restored_100856162_23_FBC3E2F32DAC1B10.jpg |
_________________
'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 7:48 pm |
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 1968
Location: Florida
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| I think most if not all J.P. Sauer guns had Krupp barrels , the early Box Lock 1912 I just purchased has Krupp barrels also . They are all top quality guns.
Kirby Hoyt is one of the best dealers I have ever traded with . |
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| | Posted: Thu May 11, 2017 10:09 pm |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| fn16ga,
Please post some pictures of your J.P. Sauer Box Lock gun, love to see your gun!
I have to agree Kirby Hoyt treated me very well also, a pleasure dealing with him.
Pine Creek/Dave |
_________________
'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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| | Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 6:06 am |
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Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa
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| | My Sauer Royal has Krupp barrels. I bought it from JonP. |
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| | Posted: Fri May 12, 2017 7:30 am |
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 1915
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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| Puddlepointer,
Pictures please of your J.P Sauer Royal, like to see the Engraving on this particular gun! Is your gun a 16 Gauge Gun or a 12.
Never dreamed the members here would have some of these nice old high grade J.P. Sauer guns. If your Royal is a 16 you need to purchase JonP a Top Shelf Battle fine Bourbon for selling it to you.
Glad I posted the thread on acquiring the gun, this was my 1st time dealing with Kirby Hoyt. I knew him by reputation only, and when this Side Lock 16 Sauer Bird Gun appeared in the Shooting Sportsman Magazine, I contacted him right away. I had been looking for a good deal on a late 1800's 16 Gauge Side Lock Sauer gun for many years. Never could find one in good enough shape to purchase, until his offering. Could not believe the gun was listed in his advertisement, and that the wood had recently been restored. Because of Kirby Hoyt's reputation I purchased the old gun long distance. Got to tell ya I seldom if ever do it, when purchasing Classic Double Guns.
Pine Creek/Dave |
Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri May 12, 2017 8:11 am; edited 6 times in total
_________________
'L.C. Smith America's Best' - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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